Curse

Xenomortis · Aug 14, 2008, 10:22 AM // 10:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lakdav

Also, i find it quite interesting, that you can steal life from anything. (mechanics dont have blood, neither life, they just 'work', undead doesnt have blood at least not liquid, 'drinkable' blood, and there are the ritu and ranger spirits), and even more interesting that no monk-skills deny life-steal (As it would further increase the 'tension' between the 2 classes philosophy). Changes in this would make life-steal more counterable, thus opening a way for some...buff/change..

By blood, I think they're getting at something's "Life essence". You drain the life out of them. That would make sense with undead, but not with golems.

shaygo · Aug 14, 2008, 01:19 PM // 13:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

By blood, I think they're getting at something's "Life essence". You drain the life out of them. That would make sense with undead, but not with golems.

not true.
the first notification of the golem is from the jewish Kabala. a golem is an animated, artificual person, made of clay and given life by its creator while putting a paper with gods name written on it, inside his mouth.

Xenomortis · Aug 14, 2008, 01:36 PM // 13:36

I'm talking about the Machine's made by the Asura. :P
Golems of lore are a different matter.

Lakdav · Aug 14, 2008, 02:19 PM // 14:19

Ok, so undead and spirits has 'life' to steal... Still, i dont get it why monks cant deny our vampiric skills. there are already monk and necro skills affecting each other, like [Rend Enchantments] and [Convert Hexes]...and those are alwyas in favor of the monk...Also the concept of getting poison and disease from affected foes is capable of making lifesteal more risky.
Interesting how we are about to nerf life stealing to raise its numbers ...

Cosmic Error · Aug 15, 2008, 12:42 AM // 00:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lakdav

Also, i find it quite interesting, that you can steal life from anything. (mechanics dont have blood, neither life, they just 'work', undead doesnt have blood at least not liquid, 'drinkable' blood, and there are the ritu and ranger spirits), and even more interesting that no monk-skills deny life-steal (As it would further increase the 'tension' between the 2 classes philosophy). Changes in this would make life-steal more counterable, thus opening a way for some...buff/change..

Try to think more about mechanics, rather than story. A change to make life-steal not work against things without blood would do absolutely nothing for PvP and even most of PvE.

I'm sorry, but I don't think stuff like this would make blood magic BETTER. (Which is, after all, the reason you made this thread.) Though, it is better than the bat-shapeshifting skill I read about in the old suggestion thread... ugh.

Lakdav · Aug 15, 2008, 07:15 PM // 19:15

The reason i made this thread is to see some suggestions and ideas with proper detail, and the reason i told my suggestion is to encourage other people on the forum. It ain't seem to work...
(I myself has no real problem with blood magic, but am courious if some people have any real ideas or mostly just jelling "it's bad dont use it or u r a noob!" respect for the exception.)

Nanood · Aug 15, 2008, 09:48 PM // 21:48

Remove energy cost from all blood magic line. A blood sacrifice for everything but with healing benefits that outweigh the casting sacrifice at the end of every non damage dealing cast performed. No inbuilt health benefit to damage dealing or life stealing casts.

My 3 cents.

Lakdav · Aug 16, 2008, 06:20 AM // 06:20

You mean like [Blood Renewal] for no e-cost and heal at the end, [Dark Pact] for the damage-dealing skills and [Barbed Signet] for the life stealing? The existance of these skills proves that it can work, but the lack of usage proves that there is something wrong with them...
BR has a big sacrifice cost wich makes it risky and hard to use, DP has little damage compared to many other skills(however it ignores armor and spammable), and BS has a 2sec cast time and a 20sec recharge (which for me looses against the 10 energy cost 1 sec cast time 5 sec recharge [Vampiric Gaze] same amount of lifesteal)
However having blood cost to all blood spells might open new possibilities toward other insignias rather than radiant.

Xenomortis · Aug 16, 2008, 10:21 AM // 10:21

I've never really considered Dark Pact spammable. It has a 2 second recharge and a 1 second casting time. But above all, it has a 10% Sacrifice. It makes a good filler for when your other skills are recharging, but I can't say I'd want to spam it on its own.

Lakdav · Aug 16, 2008, 11:36 AM // 11:36

I myself used it some time ago with [vampiric gaze] and with some health regeneration ([blood renewal], [life transfer] or the new [vampiric spirit]) and it was quite easy to quickly cast DP and VG over and over again. VG usually outheals the sacrifice cost of DP (Sacrifice necros dont usually go with more health than 630 i guess)

Moloch Vein · Aug 16, 2008, 11:42 AM // 11:42

Dark Pact is trash. It was good when it had a higher damage, which was renerfed. It needs 5% sac.

Xenomortis · Aug 16, 2008, 01:01 PM // 13:01

In its current form, yes it does need a lower sac. Either that or a damage boost. Currently in PVE, there's no need to use it while Necrosis is available. PVP is different, but there are better things to use than DP.

If you spam Dark Pact as much as possible, then Vampiric Gaze won't outweight the sacrifice. To do that, you'll need to cycle it with a load of other life stealing skills and you'll still spend ages killing a single target.

zwei2stein · Aug 16, 2008, 01:21 PM // 13:21

Solutions:

a) As suggested, Gaze spells, line of sight, blindness etc. I made similar suggesting when blood spike was at rage. Guess it was bad timing since it only awarded L2Ps for some reason.

b) Pick random prot skills and add "also affects life stealing" clause. I would pick [spirit bond] as popular choice and [Life Sheath], [Reverse Hex] and xinrai weapon as buff for those underused skills. That should allow some buffs on life stealing.

c) make curses trade some skills with blood.

Lakdav · Aug 16, 2008, 02:36 PM // 14:36

A) i like the gaze idea. Though if it was suggested before and fell on deaf ears i guess it hase some problems that i dont know of

b) Same

c) Can you explain this a little further? which skills you have in mind?

Oh, and a question...we do want to make blood magic damaging skills be more counterable to see its numbers get a bit higher, right?

Bobby2 · Aug 16, 2008, 03:58 PM // 15:58

Lower energy costs, nerf Expertise.

Tyla · Aug 16, 2008, 04:07 PM // 16:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lakdav

The reason i made this thread is to see some suggestions and ideas with proper detail, and the reason i told my suggestion is to encourage other people on the forum. It ain't seem to work...
(I myself has no real problem with blood magic, but am courious if some people have any real ideas or mostly just jelling "it's bad dont use it or u r a noob!" respect for the exception.)

I've already made a thread concerning Blood Magic, and I believe Moloch has done the same. Blood Magic sucks as a direct damage line, and it also sucks as healing line. Outside of gimmicks this is weak.

Looking at things like all of the Orders skills, Blood Magic would be far better off as a support line. It can offensively support greatly, but the defensive support and direct damage aspects of it are absolutely terrible.

There are already a few Blood Magic suggestion threads lurking around which offer a few suggestions as it stands, please search for them as right now I can't be arsed.

Xenomortis · Aug 16, 2008, 04:13 PM // 16:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lakdav

Oh, and a question...we do want to make blood magic damaging skills be more counterable to see its numbers get a bit higher, right?

As a direct damage line, Blood is weak. Simply upping the numbers won't make it stronger. Like the Air magic line, it either needs to be able to deal a lot of damage to a single target, or reasonable damage to a lot of targets. Currently, it fails at both.

As a healing line, well it's just crap.

As a party support line, it's reasonable, if a little specific. The order spells combine great with physicals and BiP and to an extent, Blood Ritual go well with casters. The trouble is, running this in general PVE or in a PuG, is not very effective. The well spells are a little limited, but have potential.

Moloch Vein · Aug 16, 2008, 04:17 PM // 16:17

I have been thinking about if it would be possible to run a lot of characters with Vampiric Spirit in a degenerative GvG configuration. This would make it possible for the team carrying less healing and maybe focus more on prot. I don't know.

And yes, it'd be a new retarded Bspike gimmick.

zwei2stein · Aug 16, 2008, 04:30 PM // 16:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lakdav

c) Can you explain this a little further? which skills you have in mind?

For example [Insidious Parasite] to blood instead in curse where it has anti-synergies in exchange for any random blood spell that is thematically okay for curses like, i.e., [Dark Bond] (curse your own minions or something.).

Blood would finally get decent-ish lifestealing damage, and more utility. Curses would get some filler.

Moloch Vein · Aug 16, 2008, 04:35 PM // 16:35

Dark Bond belongs in Death Magic as has been the case as long as it's existed.

I actually think Curses could get Dark Pact.